Unknown Legends Artists

Legendary blues man Bobby Rush landed in Hot Springs for a pair of shows on March 24. Promoter Latavious Hammock pulled the show together in a pinch including a meet and greet the night before the show at Daniel’s Special Event and Banquet Hall on Park Avenue.

During the meet and greet I had a chance to sit with Bobby Rush and ask him a few questions. At 70+ years young, I found Rush to be warm and open with a mischievous grin on his face most of the time. He was proud of the things he had accomplished as an entertainer and as a black man over the years. And while he was comfortable in his good fortune and confident in his abilities Rush was also aware that he has had a blessed life. He treated every person in the room as if they were the most important person there, taking time to visit and take pictures with anyone who wanted them.

DH: You’ve had a string of successes with the Scorcese film, The Blues, your live CD/DVD at Ground Zero and the Folk Funk album. All that stuff kind of happened quick. Have you seen a difference on the road since all these things happened? Are there more people getting turned on to Bobby Rush than there were before that?

BR: Yeah, I think the Scorcese thing really start the ball to rollin’ for me, especially for my crossover. What I mean about crossover…to my white audience. Before that time, many years ago, I was still doin’ what I’m doin’ but it was done with black audiences. But the Scorcese…I had been doing it for years until Scorcese put me out to people that never grasped what I do or where I was going. So, he gave me that vast read of television viewers to see who I was and what I do and it gave me a real fast jump. Because most people who do what I do to cross over where I crossed over it takes them 20, 30, 40 years. Now, I’ve been here 20, 30, 40 years but my crossover hadn’t been that long. I crossed over real quick….real fast.

DH: It’s just been a few years ago that that’s happened.

BR: Right. It’s just been a few years ago where white people didn’t know who I was per se.

DH: Not very many.

BR: But yet I had big records. But mine (crossover) came awful quick, awful fast. Touring at a level where I am now as a headliner. So, Scorcese, I think really did it.

DH: So has it been a conscious effort to attract a white audience to your music?

BR: Oh sure. It’s been like that for about…a good fifteen or twenty years with me. But it was a slow pace because you get a club here and a club there. Each year by year it gets bigger and bigger. But Scorcese gave me just mass, vast appearance in just 90 days. When it was out it was out. One month nobody knew about me on the white circuit.

DH: Then everyone knew.

BR: The next month everybody knew about me. So that’s fast and to the point. Since that time I did a live video at Morgan Freeman’s place in Clarksdale, Ground Zero. I did that because of this film. Now I have this…Scorcese goin’…so I took advantage of this and put this DVD out. Then I also recorded the Folk Funk album which is more bluesy than I had done.

DH: It’s a very…it’s a take off from what you’ve done.

BR: It’s a take off, right. But, it’s nothing that I haven’t done because 40, 45 years ago, 50 years ago, it’s all I was doing. So, I got into a place where disco came in. If you were just a blues singer then white people were into you. It’s almost like a Buddy Guy. It’s not that black people are not into Buddy Guy, not that he’s not great. They’re just not into that kind of music. But now Bobby Rush has gained this fame and fortune that white people know me, as well as black people already know me. Now I’m sittin’ beside the fence where I’ve got both of them. It’s a hard task but God has blessed me. I have both sides of this fence with me.

DH: You’ve done it and done it well. Let’s compare decades. What was it like on stage when you began playing fifty years ago compared to what it’s like right now?

BR: Pretty much the same thing but I was playing for all black audiences. But, there was no press for what I do or say or how I come across because people know I had a black audience. As a black man you didn’t have no borderline. But since the crossover sometimes I have to…especially when I first started with the crossover I had to be careful as a black man what I do and say because I seem to have been a threat. But, I think because I’m a seventy something plus year old man I’m not as big of a threat. I don’t believe I could get by with what I do now if I was twenty-five years old.

DH: Really? That’s interesting.

BR: People won’t accept…they would accept it from Elvis Presley but they wouldn’t accept it from me. They accept it from me now.

DH: Do you think it’s just a throw back to the old prejudice…racial thing?

BR: I think it’s a racial thing. But people are not aware of it. I remember about 8 or 9 years ago when I first started the crossover a lady from Miami who worked for the city said ‘Bobby Rush, I want to hire you but I don’t want to hire the girls.’ So I said why. She said because the girls are a little risqué. But she was wrong. She figured they’re just black girls that shake their butt. Guess what?

DH: I like the girls (Booby Rush’s dancers). I get in trouble because I like them so much.

BR: Guess what black girls do? Shake their butt. And I don’t pick no bones about that. Guess what black folks do. Play music, dance, play ball, shake their butt. Listen, that’s a culture. Nobody says anything about Chinese people eatin’ rice. That’s the culture. That’s what you do. I’m one of the few guys, one of the few black men left, that’s really true to what I do. I’m a black man and proud of it and play the blues and proud of it and I do it well.

DH: You most certainly do. That leads me to my next question. Blues has a lot of different meanings to a lot of different people. What’s your take on the blues as a musical style and as a business today?

BR: It’s a business. It’s a style that God give me but out of the style it’s a business. I think my success in what I do is that I do what I do so well. And I didn’t vary from what I do because times was tough. There were some times where I didn’t really make no money doing what I do but I believed in myself and what I was doing. Now, it pays off.

DH: So would you say it’s been your consistency then that’s been the big factor in your success?

BR: Yes, that’s a big factor. There’s two things working…being consistent but being a businessman. I’ve been business(like) about what I do. I didn’t let the whiskey or the drugs overtake me. Now, like any man I’ve got some weaknesses. I do have some weaknesses. My music is my weakness because I’m a workaholic. Sometimes I should be giving my time to my kids and my grandchildren and my family but, Lord, I’m out working. That’s still a habit. And, every now and then I look at a big legged woman. That’s not good, but it’s a habit. But I laugh about it and joke about it and tell the truth about myself. It’s been up, it’s been down but the good overtakes the bad. It’s been a hard road but I don’t owe nobody anything and nobody owes me anything. Because what I’ve made out of this is what I’ve made out of it. What I decide to do with it is what I decide to do with it.

DH: Let’s talk about your stage show. Where do you get your ideas for what you do onstage? Where do your inspirations come from?

BR: I think it comes from the audience themselves. It’s almost like a boxer. If you’re boxin’ a guy and you hit him and he’ll know when you hurt him so whatcha do?

DH: Hit him again.

BR: Yep, hit him again. My audience gives me my prompt…what I should or should not do. If they laugh or enjoy…do more of it. And you get better at it. But luckily…luckily, I’m doing something that I love to do. I’d be doing the same thing for no money like I did when I was doing it for no money. It’s just that I’m doing something I can get paid for. I remember when I first started someone said ‘Damn, Bobby Rush, you good. You should be getting’ money for this’. You mean I can get paid? For this? He didn’t know that I would have done this for no money. I’m blessed to be able to do something I love to do and something I like so well and make a living at it. That’s a blessing.

DH: You’ve been criticized in different magazines about your stage show being raunchy, corny. What do you say to the critics who pan your music just because of your show? People who say your music doesn’t have any substance without the show… What do you say to those people?

BR: Well, I think, there’s some right and there’s some wrong to that. I don’t think BB King is that good of an entertainer without his guitar. I think if you see him without his guitar there’s something missing. I have gained a relationship with what I do on the stage. Without one or the other it ain’t the same.

DH: I get it.

BR: I put this package here together. You know, a guitar’s got six strings on it. It just don’t feel right with a five string guitar. Something is missing. I can make it work but I think something would be missing. The lady who asked can I work without the girls… I said yes I can. So, she hired me for this big lump sum of money. When I got there she said ‘Oh God, you got the girls. I thought you told me you could work without them’ I said I sure did but I didn’t say I would (laughs).

DH: She didn’t specify did she?

BR: Those are the kind of things that hit me in my face and I understand where she was coming from. Sometimes they worry about what the audience is going to say about what I do. But, I’m going to tell you something. I’m a granddaddy, I’m a father, I’m a husband, and I’m a Sunday school teacher and I’m a Biblical learner and believe in Biblical things so I’m never gonna push the pin too far.

DH: Don’t you think though that if people didn’t like what you did they wouldn’t come to see you or hear you? Your fans are the ones sending the message. If they didn’t like you they wouldn’t show up.

BR: The fans never have said ‘boo" to me. It’s always been the writers who wrote in what they thought the fans said. It was never the fans. It was the writers and the radio people who are in the position to speak their opinion about what they thought the fans thought about it. They were wrong most of the time.

DH: And the room is still full and the people are still yelling for you.

BR: There’s a lot of festivals haven’t hired me today because of what some writer has said about me. Not the public. Because the public has shown me love by supporting me and buying my records. Supporting me at the festivals. Supporting me in most of the things I do. I get the short end sometimes in the advertising. Because I have got there and they will say ‘Well we got Bobby Rush here. You know he’s a little risqué.’ Nothing about me is risqué. What’s risqué about a preacher who preaches and makes you shout? Your dress might come up and it might not.

DH: Music is a religion to lots of folks. You play a lot of different instruments right? Is it safe to say that the harp is your favorite?

BR: Harp is my favorite. I think I’m a good guitar player but harp is my favorite. I can tell you why. I remember Little Walter when we were small…when we was young…20 years old. Little Walter was the slickest guy that I know of. I didn’t know that until he was dead and gone. He used to tell me ‘Bobby Rush I bet you can’t do this’ and he’d take his harp and play (makes some harp noises). I’d say ‘I can too.’ He’d say ‘Try.’ I could beat Little Walter doing what he was doing. He’d say ‘Ok, that’s pretty good’. I would go by Little Walter a week later and he’d be playing that lick he told me I couldn’t do. He learned it from me. He was real slick. So, he knew I could play harp. He’d say ‘Bobby Rush, why don’t you play guitar and I’ll play the harp’. So, we went out to Waukegan one night and I’m just 19, 20 years old…had been playing…no money in my pocket…maybe had $5 at most. I went to Elscott, Illinois, with him. Along this time he had this song called "Juke". He was a big guy. We got in the place…the place was packed. Must have been 100, 135 people. That was a lot of people to me. Charged them $3 or $4 to get in. Walter, he probably made four or five hundred dollars. That was a lot of money. He sat in there and he bought everybody a drink before the show...maybe 30, 40 people. Probably cost $5 or so. It was quarter beer but to me that was a lot of money. So, he said after he got half drunk ‘Blood, I’m going to get me some more money’. He introduced me to the crowd ‘This is Bobby Rush my little brother’. Oh the girls was all over me. Little Walter’s girls. He said he had to go home to get some more money. I said oh no. Because my thought is don’t go home to get some more money because every woman in the house, Little Walter tells them I’m his little brother and they are all over me man. I liked this. I ain’t got no money but I liked what was going on. So, he says he’s got to go get some more money and for me to come go with him. I wanted to stay there with the girls. So, I finally go with him. I thought he was going home but he went to his car. He opened his trunk up and it was full of money. One dollars, some fives, just full of money. To me, a lot of money. Apparently, Walter couldn’t count. He told me ‘Get you some money.’ So, I was being nice and got a small handful, about twenty dollars or more, you know, one dollar bills and stuck’em in my pocket. He got him two hands of money. Don’t know what he got, just two hands of money. And he closed the trunk up. When I look back on it today, he probably had $300 or $400 in there, just piled up. He closed the trunk up and there was money sticking out the sides. He was half drunk, poking it back down in there. Now, the point I’m getting to, he walked back in the place, I walked behind him, ‘I said Lord, I’m going to play me some harp. I ain’t gonna play no more guitar. Harp gonna be my thing.’ I made my mind up I was going to be a harp player because I hadn’t seen that kind of money in my life. $500? I ain’t never seen $500. Walter got $500. I said Walter, how do you make this money? He said Playin’ harp son. Playin’ harp. And my mind was made up. So, ask me what I like…Harp, brother, harp (laughs).

DH: I guess so. Let’s follow that. Who was your influence when you started? Who turned you on?

BR: Louis Jordan. Louis Jordan was my idol. I got a bunch of guys that I like certain things about them. I liked Louis Jordan because he was so footloose and comedic with his lyrics and stories. I liked Muddy Waters because he was so debonair with his dress. I liked Howlin’ Wolf because he was so different with his vocals. I liked Little Walter because he was so swift with his harp. I didn’t care that much for Sonny Boy Williamson. I liked him for his style but that wasn’t one that turned me on. And I liked Ray Charles because he did so much, I thought, with nothing. There’s a few guys along with my age that I like. I like Chuck Berry because he was so cunning with what he did. He wasn’t that great a guitar player but he was cunning.

DH: That’s a unique way to describe him. I would not have thought of that description.

BR: He wasn’t a player that would stand out but he was real cunning. I often say Chuck Berry was almost like my daddy. My daddy was a guy who would work but he would always get a bunch of men and say ‘Ok fellas this is what we’re gonna do.’ He’d walk fast and everything and in about five minutes he’d be gone but he had you workin’ all day. So, those are the kind of guys…if you listen to my music you can hear Howlin’ Wolf. You can hear all of these elements in my music. A little bit of this I like about a lot of guys.

DH: I can hear bits and pieces of Little Walter in your music. Bits and pieces of Ray Charles. Your dad was a preacher, right? What did he think about you getting into music?

BR: My daddy must have been the greatest influence that I ever had because he never told me not to sing the blues. He never told me to sing the blues. My daddy was my first blues singer I ever saw in my life. And he never said anything about it.

DH: Your dad was? Really?

BR: I didn’t know about it. I was trying to play guitar when I was about six, seven years old. I got it from my cousin, Son Scott, who lived right here (Hot Springs). He’s passed now but he lived right here. So, he had this old guitar and my dad said ‘Gimme that guitar boy.’ He started to tune it up. I didn’t know my daddy could play. He couldn’t play that well but I thought he was good. And there is a little thing called chinkypin (chinquapin) and you go out in the woods and find them like a pecan and a acorn. So, he said ‘Let me sing this song to you.’ So he went to sing…he sang ‘Me and my gal went chinkypin huntin’, she fell down and I saw somethin’. I said what… my daddy being a preacher. I got real close to him and said ‘Daddy sing that again.’ He had his old hat on …I could feel him laughin’. He said again ‘Me and my gal went chinkypin huntin’, she fell down and I saw somethin’. I said ‘Daddy.’ He looked up from under his hat and said ‘Yeah junior’. I said, lookin’ past him so my mamma wasn’t watchin, I said ‘How big was she?’ He said ‘She was fat son. She was real fat.’ I said ‘Sing it again.’ Now, in my little mind there’s this big fat woman. ‘Me and my gal went chinkypin huntin’, she fell down and I saw somethin’. Then he said ‘With her fat self.’ I said ‘Daddy, what’d she have on?’ He said ‘Nothin’ but a dress son. Nothin’ but a dress.’ In my mind I could see a big fat lady fallin’ down with no drawers on. That’s all I could see. Wow! He said ‘What’s wrong son? Can you visualize that?’ I said ‘Yes. Sing it again.’ Now I got my visualize thing goin’, right? I said ‘Sing it again daddy.’ About that time my daddy had his back to the door and I’m facing the door where I can see my mamma. She was in there cookin’. He sung it again. He said ‘Me and my gal went chinkypin huntin’…’ and I popped my daddy on the legs because my momma was coming. ‘…She fell down and I kept runnin’.’ That’s all he ever said. I don’t know where his song was gonna go after that. That was the end of the song. I don’t know to this day what the song was gonna be. But I sure did want to hear the rest of that. Now all I know is she’s big, she’s fat and she didn’t have no drawers on. Now I know that part. I don’t know the rest of it. My momma messed it up.

DH: Maybe that’s the next line in the song…’My mamma messed it up’. Let’s talk about today’s musicians. Who do you like to see and hear play today? Who do you think is the next generation comin’ up? Who stands out to you?

BR: It’s bad to say…that nobody knocks me down because everybody’s following suit. There’s nobody creating. Everybody wants to do what the Jones’ done. Even down to the rap or whatever. Even down to when I love Buddy and all them guys. They’re copying themselves or someone else. It’s almost like, as old as I am someone will get me to try to play Sonny Boy Williamson. Why should I duplicate or imitate Sonny Boy and he was younger than I am now when he passed? So why can’t I do my own? It’s ok for a young boy to do it because he’s coming up to be something else.

DH: He’s learning.

BR: He’s learning.

DH: You know, one of the things that I’ve talked about…I buy a lot of different blues music, different kinds of music. One of the things I find with the newer music that I get is that it’s kind of like you said…Nothing grabs me. It’s all…

BR: It’s all generated around the copy of something… nothing new.

DH: I mean I can go back and pull an old Fuzzy Lewis album out or pull out Muddy Waters and hear the same thing and nobody’s built on it. Nobody’s taken it. So, I agree with what you’re saying.

BR: Yeah, they’re not creating. And they’re afraid to step out in a direction where it may be a little raw to someone.

DH: You had Alvin Hart on your Folk Funk album. What about him? He’s someone I really like to listen to.

BR: I like it. He’s good especially when he’s with someone that’s got the wit that I have. He’s a fine guitar player. But, even though he’s a good guitar player he’s got a small (amount of experience). It’s almost like writing a book. You can only write about what you know about. How much does Alvin know? He ain’t got nobody to take him no place. He listens to about 4 or 5 guys and he’s heard it all because most of the guys repeat it. Most of the blues guys…If you hear five blues guys, I guarantee you’re gonna hear "Sweet Home Chicago" five times.

DH: Or "Stormy Monday".

BR: Or "Stormy Monday". Or "Mojo Boogie". You follow me? Everybody has stopped creating.

DH: Nobody’s creating something new. Let’s go back to the music. The Folk Funk album…it’s more folk than funk. We talked about that. It’s a little bit of a departure from what you normally do.

BR: I named it Folk Funk because I want you to catch up in the folk and the funk thing. But the folk thing is what happened.

DH: So what prompted you to do that album? Do that kind of departure from what you normally do?

BR: Because I have gained the population. I’m popular enough now to do some of the things I want to do.

DH: So it’s just expanding what you’ve been doing then?

BR: That’s what I want to do. It’s almost like a guy who gets drunk and calls you a so and so and so and so. He wanted to do it anyway he just wasn’t drunk enough to say it.

DH: You can say that you’re drunk enough with your music now that you can say what you want. What’s on the Night Fishing record? I haven’t heard it yet. What’s it like?

BR: Good record. Soulful record. Biggest record I’ve had in a long time.

DH: How long has it been out?

BR: Seven or eight months. Big record. Probably five times bigger than Folk Funk.

DH: Really? I’ll be looking forward to getting it.

BR: Every black station in the country is playing it. But I knew it was going to get that kind of response. It’s not as bluesy…it’s soulful. But I did that because I can get airplay. I’ve also got a record that I just recorded called Raw To The Bone…just my guitar and my harp and one other guy.

DH: When’s that coming out?

BR: Probably in about 90 days. Called Raw To The Bone.

DH: Cool. I can’t wait to hear it. I read an article in Blues Review about you meeting John Lee Hooker and talking to him about finally making the money. You were proud of him…he was finally making the money. The quote he said was ‘What the Hell is good about this. They gave it to me when I’m an old man. Why didn’t they give it to me when I needed it?’ And your comment later on in the article was ‘I want to get it before he got it.’ So, my question is, knowing that none of us ever have enough money, are you getting’ it now? Are you where you want to be financially?

BR: Yes. Finally. Finally. Finally. I guess you would say BB King, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray…but I’m in that ballpark now.

DH: Are you happy with it? Are you happy with the direction things have gone?

BR: I might be have the edge one way or the other because I’ve got the black audience some of them don’t have. I’m there. I say that because these guys are great. Just to be in the ballpark with these kind of guys.

DH: Have you done any of the Legends tours with some of these guys?

BR: No, I haven’t. I’m hoping in the future I can get that shot to do those. I think now, that I’m hungry but I don’t think that I’m so hungry that I wouldn’t hurt the tour. I think if it had come a few years ago it wouldn’t have been good because I work so hard. I work so hard. So, I think I would dominate the tour. Because, if I was some of these guys manager I wouldn’t let Bobby Rush be on the show with me.

DH: Ive had the opportunity to meet Hubert Sumlin, Willie Smith, Pinetop…Still pretty good guys in their own right but they are getting to where they are slowing down. Hubert can still play the fire out of the guitar.

BR: He can play. But that’s…Oh God…What I’m about to say now I’m gonna let you know that…(long pause).

DH: Anything you don’t want me to print I won’t.

BR: No, no, (screw) that. I respect all forms of entertainment and the entertainer. But there is a difference from Ray Charles than Hubert Sumlin. They are both entertainers but not per se. You understand what I’m saying?

DH: Yeah I do.

BR: See, a horse is a horse…a cow is a cow. They’re both important but one gives milk, one pulls a wagon. There is a difference. So, when you talk about Hubert being an entertainer, that’s just hard. It’ll never happen. It’s never been. It’s just the writers who put him there, but he ain’t never been there no way. That don’t mean he’s a lesser musician. See, you can teach a man how to play a guitar, you can teach a man how to play a piano. But, you can’t teach a man how to do what I do.

DH: To reach out and grab an audience and pull them along.

BR: You can’t teach a man to do what Elvis Presley did. They can say anything they want to about it. The man had it. God has to give you that. You can be taught to do what Hubert does. You know why? Because 30 years ago many white guys couldn’t do it but they have been taught to play as well as the black guys. But you can’t teach them to do what Elvis Presley did. You’ve got to be born to do that.

DH: You know, there aren’t many of those kind of people out there.

BR: You know what I’m sayin’? Now, I said that about Elvis…When I walk on the stage there’s something about my walking on the stage that you can’t get out of the book. Many people who play piano as well or better than Ray Charles but you can’t get…there’s something else about him.

DH: You can’t do what Ray Charles did. What Ray Charles had was that extra "something".

BR: Elvis Presley wasn’t no bad guitar player but let me tell you something he had something else.

DH: He wasn’t that great a singer when you get down to it.

BR: It’s that gift.

DH: He had the look, the attitude, whatever you want to call it.

BR: That’s God’s gift.

DH: Last question. You’ve been doing this for fifty years…five decades. What advice do you have to give to the young folks that want to be musicians…that want to do this for a living? What would you tell them?

BR: Be fair with yourself. Be good at what you do. Do all you can while you can. There will come a time you can’t do. And you won’t regret what you did not do.

DH: Good advice. Thank you Bobby Rush. I enjoyed this very much. I could sit here and talk to you all night.